Audio Podcast

Intro

Heidi: Hello, we're here today with Dr. Chrystal Porter, Vice President for Enrollment and Marketing at Lasell University. Thank you for joining us.

Chrystal: Thank you for having me.

Matt: Yes, thanks for coming.

Heidi: Dr. Porter, one of your areas of interest is educational technology. Our online graduate programs are founded on technology and the pandemic put the rest of our courses online. What lasting changes in our use of technology do you see coming out of the pandemic?

Chrystal: I am hoping that those who have offered instruction before just face to face and were introduced to technology now can truly see the value in it. You know, that it's not an either or type of conversation, that technology can truly, truly enhance both how instruction is provided as well as the overall experience for students. So where I know I go into a classroom and a lot of my research has been on how students kind of want a gamified type of experience. And instructors have not so much wanted that because for one reason they didn't learn that way and they've actually never really seen it in practice. And so I'm hoping as instructors were playing around with tools and kind of seeing how they could vary their instruction, they can see they can create a different experience. It doesn't have to be totally on the game side, you know, in terms of having fun and giving points and things like that. But you can set it up, set your classes up, set the content up in a way that it is creating kind of an experience for your students, which is a little bit different than what kind of happens when you do regular in-class instruction.

Matt: Yes. Thank you, Crystal. Yeah, I agree in a lot of ways. I like to think, too, that a lot of what faculty have done in the past could be looked at as gamification. And a lot of ways formative activities, for instance, are all about learning curve, getting people prepared for that big assignment that they have to do. And that's a lot of what happens in a lot of games, too, as well.

So another specialty of yours is andragogy; can you talk a bit about what that is and how it relates to pedagogy?

Chrystal: Absolutely. So "andragogy" is a play off of "pedagogy". Malcolm Knowles is the originator of it. And what he noticed was that adults -- and when he used the term adults, it was traditionally someone twenty four or older -- did indeed obtain learning or knowledge differently than children. Where, when you go into traditional pedagogy type models, it's an instructor putting into a student. Where andragogy -- again, someone twenty four or older -- they've lived a little bit of life. They've had experience. And so he felt that it was really important for instructors to take that student's experience and figure out how that plays into their learning. So you don't 100 percent rely on the instructor and their knowledge. It's a relationship between the instructor and the student. It's giving credit to what a student may have experienced.

And, you know, a kind of an offshoot of that is, is that multiple students may have had multiple experiences. And so the instructor has to help navigate that in the course to validate that. Actually, when we're talking about a subject, different students may have experienced that differently. Where when you're dealing with pedagogy, I the instructor am the one that say this is the way it is and you know, you're wanting your students to fall in line. So it really kind of level sets a classroom where the instructor is not the only one with the knowledge, that you're absolutely looking to your students to figure out what kind of knowledge that they've obtained in real life as it relates to the subject. And then you work your way through the subjects that way.

So for me, I love that concept of andragogy, because as a student, I always felt that. I always felt that there were certain topics that I did know about. And when I discovered this theory, I was like, that's it! That's... that's what I sometimes felt in classrooms, especially in those subject areas that were related to my major and I did have a little bit of experience. It created a space that I was able to actually feel like I could talk about a subject and relate to the subject when... if the faculty member did give me that opportunity to talk about the experiences. And andragogy definitely requires the instructor to do that.

Heidi: Thank you. So during the pandemic, our undergraduates took on a lot of responsibilities and gained a lot of experience. So in light of that, how would you advise faculty to adapt instruction for these students?

Chrystal: I love that question. Because a big part of my dissertation, which related to andragogy and actually traditional age students. So this is back early two thousands when I completed my dissertation. I actually was trying to build a case that actually because of the amount of information that students can acquire via the Internet now... Where I was just talking about, you know, give validation to experience, we need to give validation to the fact that our students can acquire knowledge and information without us, too. And so this is where I think andragogy can be applied to a younger demographic than what it was originally created.

And again, I would hope that people that look into andragogy are considering this as a concept. Think about, again, the relationship you want to have with your student. Is it that you want to be the all knowing person or do you want to create an environment where maybe you ask a question and you allow them to go seek the answer and then that's where you come back together and kind of have the conversation. So, again, it was something I've been thinking about for years. And and I'm very much about active learning, too. And I just love the thought, the thought that andragogy and the concepts that relate to it kind of require people to get involved in active learning for their students. And so, yeah, that's where I hope that as instructors are looking at what their students are going through, they'll allow them to bring that into the classroom.

Matt: Thanks so much.

Yeah, I agree, in a lot of ways. My background was as a coach. And as a coach, you can't do the race for the students. The same thing in a writing instructor. You can't write the essay for that much as you might like to sometimes. At least, speaking personally, it feels like that sometimes. "No, don't do it that way. Do it this way." But where is the learning coming in if they can't bring in those prior skills and knowledge and apply them? So that makes a lot of sense to me.

So speaking of all these changes that have happened in the past 18 months... they've been very tumultuous, but they've had some silver linings. So what do you think we should keep from our experiences with pandemic teaching and learning? And what do you hope won't persist?

Chrystal: Well, I'm hoping we keep the hybrid model. And I say that generically, because, as you know, that can come in many shapes and forms. But to think about the in person, the student, and that their life really does include a lot of technology. So now that we have entered the pandemic and instruction has definitely gone that route, whether instructors were prepared or not, you know, to really think about how the tools are, what the tools are, and how you really can create different experiences.

So a concept I often asks instructors to do is to think, can you be a facilitator? So when you're doing any kind of instruction with technology, you don't need to necessarily duplicate what happens in a face to face. But can you facilitate an experience? So I'm hoping that individuals will continue to think about their instruction and how they can better serve their students.

What I hope kind of goes away, that's a good question as well. You know, again, I guess it's a similar response. You know, if we can get away from the sage on the stage, you know, and to really be curious and not see technology as something to be against, technology's amazing. You know, and I and I wish actually people would...

I guess if I could change anything, I wish people would actually pause and take a moment to be amazed, you know, not only with what tools we have, but even some of the tools that they just use. You know, take a moment and really take it in that we are able to utilize the devices that we have and to connect with people all around the world and to show our students materials, anything. I mean, just virtually anything from a device that's in their pocket right now. So, you know, to really pause and to be amazed and not get upset when it doesn't work, you know, that that comes with many things, including the car. So, you know, we need that, too. But if anything, you know, just the excitement. See the excitement in this era that we're in; we kind of got thrust into it but we're here now, you know. And I really hope that people can embrace the moment and move forward in a positive way and create a wonderful experience for the time that we do have our students.

Heidi: Thank you.

Matt: Thanks so much, Chrystal. We really appreciate having you here today or having us here today in this particular case is the first time we've recorded one of these actually in person. So thanks so much for joining us today. And. Yeah.