Audio Podcast

Text Transcript

Matthew Boyle: Welcome back everybody! Today, we're talking with Michelle Niestepski, Dean of Student Success here at Lasell University. Welcome Michelle!

Michelle Niestepski: Thanks for having me. Hi everyone!

What are the goals for advising at Lasell?

Matthew Boyle: So, Michelle, in the TLC, we always thought of advising as a form of teaching, For example, helping advisees engage in critical thinking, decision making, planning, scheduling. What are the goals for advising here at Lasell?

Michelle Niestepski: Great question, so I agree advising is definitely teaching. It can be just as rewarding and just as exciting as being in the classroom, and it can also at times be just as frustrating as being in the classroom. So I think our goals for advising really boil down to being kind to students and giving them accurate information.

And, obviously it goes a lot beyond that, in terms of wanting our faculty advisors to really guide and mentor students through their time here at Lasell and help them with some of those big questions that they have in terms of, well, is this really the right major for me, what am I going to do with it, why do I need to take these courses, how do they all connect together? But really before you can dive into that, you really need to have that good connection with students and that starts with just being kind with them and understanding that all of our students are starting at a different spot, and some of them understand it. They've had family that have been to college before; they're familiar with curriculum, with the advising process, and others that are really starting from scratch. So, I think before we get to have those really kind of more engaged, exciting conversations with students, that a lot of it just starts off with being kind with them and giving them accurate information cause that's what's going to build positive connections with our students.

What are some common barriers faculty might face?

Matthew Boyle: Thank you. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense; get them comfortable before you dive into those big conversations. I can imagine a number of barriers that might get in the way of helping the students succeed. Can you think of any, or can you describe for us some of the common barriers to faculty success in advising that you've experienced or you've known other has to experience?

Michelle Niestepski: Yeah, I can, and there's there's a lot of different barriers there. All overcomable, but definitely a lot of barriers, and I think I can start with myself as an example that when I first started at Lasell in advising that that was really a nerve-wracking part of it, that I had taught before, so I had a lot of experience in the classroom, but advising was a whole new piece of things that was...that was a lot to get used to, and feeling like "Ooh, I'm all of a sudden hav[ing] the responsibility for making sure that the student makes the right decisions and takes all of the right courses and trying to understand all the policies. So there can be a lot of barriers, so I think that's one initial barrier as faculty that haven't advised before. All of a sudden, having the advising role thrust upon you can be a little bit overwhelming.

I think faculty who are advising for students outside of their major, that can also be overwhelming, because now you're trying to become familiar with another curriculum and really understand not just the curriculum, but the goals and kind of how everything sequences together, as well as the professional opportunities for students in that field, so that can be overwhelming. I think another barrier can be that sometimes, unfortunately, some faculty don't necessarily see advising as teaching right away, right from the get go; they see it as kind of a separate added task that they're being asked to do. And so then it can be really hard to find a lot of the joy that's in advising if you kind of start off from that that mind frame. Our policies can also be really confusing sometimes to understand and navigate and to know exactly where to look for the right information and how that applies to our students, or an individual student that you're working with, so that can be a little bit of a barrier as well.

And then I think the other main barrier can sometimes be our students, just like in the classroom and some of our students are wonderful and amazing, each advisee is different, so what you do with one advisee might work really well: they respond, they show up to their meetings, they have everything organized, they have great questions. And then, you know, the next student you meet with is the exact opposite, just like in the classroom where you know, a cookie cutter approach doesn't work. It's the same thing with advising, but I think sometimes that that can be a little bit frustrating cause it's...You know, it's easy to work with the really talented students, whether they're in the classrooms, the one that raised their hand and are actively participating. It's easy to support those students. It's more challenging, and I think really makes us dig deeper as as advisors when we're working with the students that might not respond to our outreach where we're trying to reach out and say "Okay, do you need help? Can I connect you with counseling? Can I connect you with Tutoring?" But we don't hear from them until the last minute, so I think that that can initially feel like a barrier for a lot of faculty; I think that's also conversely where it can be the most rewarding experience as once you finally are able to connect with those students and understand what's been going on, or once they're in a good place and they're able to kind of work with you more. So, I think, while they can be really challenging and can be a barrier, I think those are also kind of the most rewarding students to work with.

Matthew Boyle: Nice, thank you very much. It is an interesting way of thinking about it [advising]...Because it helps you realize again that it is another form of teaching, I guess, and that the barriers are kind of an individual version of stuff that you've already run into in many ways in the classroom.

Michelle Niestepski: It is. I used to...when I coached gymnastics years ago, one of the coaches that I worked with had said that "You know, it's really easy to coach a talented gymnast, that you tell them what to do, you show it to them once, or explain it once, and they do it." It doesn't really take much talent to work with the strong gymnast, but it's the other ones where where you say it once, maybe you show it to them, and it just doesn't click. And so, then you need to be creative and say "OK, well, what if I explain it this way? What if I try it this way? Or having another student say it to them?" And then eventually, you know, they get it, and that's when it's really rewarding. And, that always has stuck with me in the classroom as well, that it's great if I say something and explain it and one group of students gets it on the first go around, but it's that group that I have to say it differently and try to do different things that really tap into my ability to be creative and adaptable, that those are the ones that are really the most rewarding, and I think if we can bring that into how we advise that then that can really make for a much more productive and a much better experience.

How can advisors support so many individual needs without becoming overwhelmed?

Matthew Boyle: Well, that leads pretty well into our next question. Is...that sort of individual need of those students who don't immediately get it, for whom it doesn't click, how best can faculty advisors see to a student's individual needs like that, without becoming overwhelmed? Seems like there will be a lot of individual needs to see to in those cases.

Michelle Niestepski: Yeah, that's a really good question, cause it can be...it can feel really overwhelming, especially at first, and we know that a lot of our students have a lot of high needs so. I think there's kind of two different categories: I think one would be students that ffaculty are working, they've made a connection with, but the students are dealing with a lot of mental health or a lot of other challenges that they're experiencing that they've shared with their faculty advisor, and I know a number of our faculty advisors have experienced this over the years, so I think...In that circumstance that it's really important for the advisor to let the student know, you know, that they're not a counselor and let them know how much they really appreciate the student reaching out and sharing this with them, but that they care for the student and want to make sure that they're getting the best help possible and so they're going to connect them with counseling and make sure that they're able to get the help that they need, and then as a faculty member being able to pause and really make sure that they're practicing self care as well.

So I think that's kind of the one group of advisees that have really specific challenges. For the other students who we're trying to kind of balance, well, this student really struggling to understand which courses to take, this students is struggling to understand, you know, if they really want to be here in college, right now, and this one's just kind of got off the radar and I can't get a hold of, that's when it can really feel like you're trying to juggle you know 10, 15, 20 different personalities and tasks there. So I think kind of setting up boundaries, and then being really flexible and figuring out what works as an advisor for you specifically, and realizing that what the person doing in the office next door to you might be working really well for them, but that doesn't mean that it's kind of work really well for you.

So being flexible with students in terms of if the faculty member is comfortable meeting with students on campus, meeting with them on campus if they find that that works better with their advisees. Zoom has worked really well for a lot of faculty advising meetings. It's given everyone a lot more flexibility in terms of the timing of it; it's been easy to screen share, and for some students, they'll jump on the chance, and, you know, if they can stay in their dorm room and meet over zoom vs needing to, you know, walk across campus, then I think, you know, I think that's great. As long as both the Faculty advisor and the student feel like they're getting their needs met, I found that for some students, you know once I was said "Okay, you know what, if you want to text me, that's fine." That's made a huge difference that some of them that would never otherwise take the time, sit and write an email; they'll, you know, they'll reach out, they'll text me with a question about something, And can get a...I can also conversely get a response from them right away, so being flexible with that, and really just trying to talk more students.

I think that the more time we put at the beginning to talking with our students, getting to know them, building connections with them, then all of these other pieces kind of fall into play when you already have a good understanding of kind of what's been going on, what drew them to Lasell in the first place, what they enjoy about being here, what their struggles are with being here. I think the more time that you spend kind of understanding them from the get go, that then it makes it easier to deal with things when they pop up down the line. So, I think it's harder if you, if you don't hit it initially establish that good connection -- maybe you only trade one or two emails -- and then something happens, and then the student's struggling with something, or you're having a hard time getting a hold of them, then it feels much more challenging at that point, because you don't already have a good kind of foundational base to go back to.

Again, kind of the same thing as in the classroom. The better connection that you have with students, the easier it is to kind of work from there when things do go awry.

Matthew Boyle: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense: working on the foundations of the relationship with students and setting up those boundaries and practicing self-care for yourself, so that you don't feel as if you have no control over all the different needs that might arise.

Michelle Niestepski: Exactly, so at the end of the day, as much as...as much as we care about our students and want to see them make the right choices, we can't make those choices for them. We can give them the guidance and support, lead them there, encourage them to talk with their family, but at the end of the day, you know, we're not the ones making those decisions, and I think we often have to remind ourselves of that.

How can faculty work with professional advisors, e.g. when raising flags in Starfish?

Matthew Boyle: How best can faculty work in tandem with professional advisors, and I suppose other resources such as counseling, for example when raising a flag in starfish?

Michelle Niestepski: Yeah, so the more that faculty as instructors and as advisors can use starfish and use our flag system and our kudos system that we have, the better it is for students. So, as faculty in their instructor role, if they have a student that they're a little bit worried about in their course either because of attendance , participation, if they don't raise a flag, then our professional advisors, if it's a first year student, they won't know that the student is struggling because, oftentimes, they might have the student in front of them. They're having a conversation, they ask the student how they're doing, the student says, "Oh great, I'm doing really well in all my classes."

Well, unless there's a flag that's raised in Starfish that alerts the professional advisor that, "Well, OK, actually the students seems to be missing class they seem to be struggling with some content..." If that flag isn't raised there to alert them to it, they wouldn't otherwise know it, so I think it's really important in their instructor role to raise flags and also to raise kudos. I think unfortunately sometimes we've really focused in on the flags more cause we want to make sure that everyone's aware when a student is struggling. But the power...the kudos can be really powerful to, especially for students, maybe that have struggled a little bit in the past, to get that positive reinforcement can be great for them.

And then faculty when they're in their advising role, the same thing, that using starfish to make referrals, so if they have a student that they think would benefit from a referral to the counseling Center, from career development, to the academic achievement Center, using the referrals right through starfish because then, not only are you mentioning it to the student. But then the student...the other office also gets that connection, and then it's part of the student's starfish record. And also setting it up as a "to do" for them, or something like that, so they have it and it's kind of written down somewhere, so the more that faculty can can make use the starfish as an additional resource for students, the better.

What other recommendations do you have for faculty?

Matthew Boyle: Thank you very much; that makes a lot of sense. I really liked the ideas about positive reinforcement as a complement to raising those flags, it can make it seem less negative probably and can certainly help individual students feel that reinforcement that they need. So what other recommendations do you have for faculty about supporting student success or handling the advising load? Or just recommendations in general for the upcoming semester?

Michelle Niestepski: Yeah, I think number one is just remember that, just like in the classroom, that advising isn't a one size fits all approach. And, that...it's OK if you work with one advisee you might have that maybe you need to meet with much more frequently. And then another advisee that, especially if you already see that student in class and you touch base with them, they might not need as much frequent check ins during the semester. So I think really establishing a good relationship with them from the get go-so that advisees feel comfortable reaching out to a faculty member, to their faculty advisor, you know, when they do have a question about whether it's a course, maybe a course that they want to take elsewhere, if they have a question about our Double Laser program, anything like that so that our students know that they have somebody that they feel comfortable going to.

And then I think it's also really helpful for faculty advisors to remember that they don't need to have all the answers. We have a lot of policies, we have oftentimes there's different curriculum students are following depending on what year in school they are. So I think for faculty just to know that it's Okay not to have all the answers. And, just like in the classroom, where we model for students that "Okay, you know what. I'm not sure. That's a really great question you raised. You know, let's think about that together, let's look into it, let's problem solve." I think for faculty to know that it's okay to do the same thing with advising, that it's perfectly fine to tell a student, "Oh, that's a great question; I'm not sure what the policy is. Let's look at that together, or you know what, I need to touch base with somebody else about this, and then I'll circle back to you."

So I think, knowing that it's okay to ask questions. They are always welcome to reach out to me, they're welcome to reach out to the professional advisors, to the school deans, the registrar's office, that there's a lot of great resources out there that faculty shouldn't be afraid to make use of. No one's going to say, "Oh, you should have known that! Why are you asking that question?" So, I think being comfortable asking and reaching out and then experimenting and being flexible and seeing, you know, what works with students? Is it easier if I offer them zoom meetings? You know, if it works for the faculty member for their schedule, just having a few later in the afternoon or early evening? Does that work better with students schedules? Because by then. they're out of class and they're more likely to respond, so I think really being flexible and trying not to say "OK, well, this is how I do it, this is how I've always done it, and students need to adapt" versus saying, "Okay, this is what I've done, this is what's worked, this hasn't worked, so you know what, I want to try this differently. I know that the student always waits until the last minute before registration to reach out to me."

Okay, well, if you know that, what could you do differently to change that narrative? Could you reach out to the student iin advance, or can you just block off, you know, four o'clock on Friday afternoon because you know that's when the student's going to be panicked and reaching out? And I think. taking on a little bit more of the onerous on our end actually can make it a much better experience if we already can kind of plan for that in advance.

Matthew Boyle: Thank you so much for joining us today Michelle we really appreciate it.

Michelle Niestepski: My pleasure.