Audio Podcast

Related Resources

NPR left, right, center
Better arguments group
PBS special Divided we Fall
Allsides [balanced news via media bias ratings]
Trauma-informed pedagogy
Cohen, steele, & ross (1999) cross-race mentoring & effects of stigma.pdf

Text Transcript

Intro

Heidi: Welcome back to the Teaching and Learning at Lasell podcast with Matt and Heidi from the TLC. We're here today with Jesse Tauriac, associate professor of psychology, director of the Donahue Institute for Equity and Social Justice, and chief diversity officer here at Lasell. Welcome, Jesse.

Jesse: Hi. Thanks so much Heidi for having me.

Matt: Welcome, Jesse.

Jesse: Thanks so much for having me Matt.

Q1: How is the polarization in society affecting students and instruction at Lasell?

Heidi: Jesse, among the many crises of 2020, we saw increased division and polarization in our communities, racial minoritized from white, liberal from conservative, essential from sheltered. How do you see that is affecting students and instruction here at Lasell?

Jesse: I very much appreciate your asking, because honestly, I think it has profound implications in terms of being able to engage in topics that are related to social identities and inequities and topics that have the potential for being very emotionally charged.

Honestly, in our society, we really don't have great models for being able to engage across differences and whether we're thinking about those politically, or we think about those in terms of race, ethnicity, culture, religion, political ideology, there just aren't a lot of great models. And when we think about the classroom, so here we are in the broader society, which is incredibly polarized and divided. And you get a number of students who come from a range of backgrounds who haven't developed the skills in being able to engage across differences just because we haven't done that very well in our society.

And, in fact, we teach the opposite. When you go to a cocktail party, don't talk about religion, sex, or politics. You just don't do that. And so we actually put forward this idea of don't talk about difficult topics or controversial topics. And yet we have the expectation when we have a lot of students who haven't had that limited experience, nor have they had that modeling, that somehow they're going to be able to do that in a classroom. So it makes it very challenging.

I think even beyond that, we're looking at many topics in our classes that relate to issues that are very connected to people's life experiences and very connected to the most charged topics in our society today and controversial topics in our society today, and so I think there's a lot of potential for emotional volatility, for conflict, for the potential for real rifts and division in the classroom.

Now, along with that, there's also the potential for being able to engage across differences in some incredible ways for people, allowing students to listen to different viewpoints that they've never had exposure to or access to. So there's some positive potential as well. So I also want to make sure that we acknowledge that, too. And yet there's a real potential there for conflict, and in some cases sort of even a classroom blow up, if you will.

I think it's really critical that we work hard to foster relationships and a sense of community at the start of the semester. That's always critical. And along with that, I think that given what we have seen in recent months and years, it's even more critical. So making sure that students have the opportunity to connect with one another, to get to know each other as people and not to reduce people or their peers as somebody who just has a different political perspective than them, or sort of different identity than them, or somebody who ultimately is going to otherize them or others, recognizing,

"No, this is the student who I've gotten to know. And they care deeply about other people and they really want to see positive things for our communities and our society. And they have a different perspective on these things than I do. So let me try to listen here. Let me try to understand, or let me give them the benefit of the doubt that these differences that might arise are [not] present because this person is somehow problematic or uncaring or disparaging or contentious."

They're there because somebody has a different worldview or different viewpoint on things. And I want to learn.

Q2: Are there positive Models for Discussion/Conversation?

Matt: Thank you, Jesse. Yeah, I think that's very interesting, the idea that people sort of have it scaffolded into them to avoid difficult conversation, their models are all very polarized, heated. Do you think there are communities or environments where people do have that kind of experience of positive conversation that they could draw upon before they go into the classroom?

Jesse: Indeed. There certainly are models out there. Unfortunately, they aren't easily accessible. We have to search for them. And part of that is because given that we really don't invest substantial resources into a public media, a lot of our news outlets and a lot of the news information that we access online really try to drive an emotional volatility and try to push for outrage culture, if you will, because you get more clicks or people are more likely to watch very provocative news shows because the ratings are higher. And so as a result of that, the folks who tend to be put on air are very skilled, unfortunately, at sort of amplifying these topics. And along with that, the writers and people who produce them.

I think that there certainly are outlets that are there. You just need to be intentional about finding them. What comes to mind for me, I love an NPR show called "Left, Right and Center," which really looks at topics from a range of political perspectives. And as they put it in terms of their own promotion, we try to move beyond self-contained opinion bubbles that really their goal is to get a group of folks from a range of backgrounds to talk and to listen and to learn.

There's actually a great model that's out there called "The Better Arguments," which leads town halls about particular topics and issues. And their goal is to get people from a range of backgrounds together just to be able to listen and learn from one another. There's a great PBS special called "Divided We Fall" that pulls together people from a range of backgrounds. So I definitely recommend looking at that model. So there are some things that are out there. It really is about trying to find that.

Oh, and last thing I would add is there's a fabulous website called Allsides that I tend to use a lot that helps to understand why people look at things in very different ways. For example, they have a red-blue dictionary that looks at the ways in which people define different concepts, which I think is extremely helpful.

Matt: Thanks. Yeah, I think that would be extremely helpful. And if you have any of those things, we could share them on the related resources section where this podcast is currently hosted [see the links above to follow up].

Q3: How has the disproportionate effect of the pandemic on minoritized communities manifested at Lasell?

Matt: So we know that the events of the past year have had a disproportionate effect on minoritized communities such as those, for example, from a working class or persistent poverty, class background and communities of color in the United States. Can you tell us how this has manifested at Lasell? Sure, absolutely.

Jesse: Unfortunately. This really has had an impact on folks from minoritized communities, as you were asking about. I think for as we look at the aftermath of the pandemic, the stress, the trauma, the disruption wasn't evenly distributed and certainly not among families and certainly not among our students. For many of us, we've had students who have lost family members to covid. Many folks come from families in which their parents were essential workers and ultimately that impacted the risk that they took, but also the challenges that that's the burden that was placed on those students, their families.

So one example of this, there's one student -- and I don't want to disclose a lot of personal information lest the student be identifiable -- but a student who is studying content that is extremely difficult to grasp for many people, the [type of] classes that when I [would] look at my course catalog as an undergraduate used to make me nervous and sort of my palms would get clammy and cold and sweaty. And she was studying material that was very challenging for a number of reasons.

One of her parents saw a drop in salary just because, unfortunately, that was what was forced. A parent basically was told, look, we're going through a rough time financially and therefore your salary is going to be dropped. Another parent, unfortunately, lost their job and they ultimately needed to get a new job that was a much lower wage. And so suddenly a student who was very high performing saw a burden that was placed on them because they needed to provide child care for a very young sibling. And they also needed to share a family computer with another sibling who was in high school and ultimately try to do all of this while the number of hours that they were working quadrupled.

And so that's sort of one example of a student who I know about. There are many more examples. Students who didn't have access to resources, opportunities, ultimately were in situations where they're needing to engage in classes over Zoom, where they might not have free wifi or where their responsibilities are sort of the background noises that they had, family responsibilities or other kinds of things might have posed an increased burden in terms of their ability to engage in content, their whole host of ways that this has impacted our students from various backgrounds.

And so we have seen that play out with students in terms of their ability to engage their intellectual and emotional bandwidth. And beyond that, even the ways in which they engage in conversations related to vaccine, related to math, related to requirements in terms of essential workers. The differential impact has shaped how they show up, how they are resourced as it relates to how prepared they are or sort of how centered they are as they engage in particular topics or try to learn in particular ways.

And then also just the energy that they have available to them, sort of their cognitive resources and whether that is related to intellectual material or emotional sort of material that's more affective.

Heidi: Thank you, Jesse. I'm really impressed with the way Lasell students have survived the past year, despite all the challenges.

Q4: Are there recommendations for teaching students who have been traumatized while still maintaining high standards?

Heidi: So how would you recommend that Lascelles support students who might have been traumatized by the events of the past year while still maintaining an inclusive atmosphere and ensuring that students are held to high standards that will set them up for academic and professional success?

Jesse: Thank you for asking and I want to answer your question, [but first] I just want to express appreciation for your acknowledgment of Lasell students stepping up and facing those challenges, the determination that they show, the resilience and the ability to persevere. Certainly, it's important that we acknowledge the hurdles and the obstacles that many of many of our students face.

And along with that, I want to make sure we don't sort of take a deficits oriented perspective or we say, “oh, my goodness, you have folks who suddenly are going to be flailing.” A lot of our students demonstrated a level of fortitude and again, perseverance and determination that is incredibly impressive. And I think it's important for us to acknowledge that and to honor that. So I very much appreciate your doing that.

I think, as it relates to supporting students. There are a number of things that come to mind. I think about first as it relates to trauma and whether that is trauma related to their family circumstances or a sort of the disruption that they have faced, whether that's related to racial trauma in the aftermath of the violence that was inflicted upon members of their communities, in the ways that they might feel that they themselves or their family members are especially vulnerable. I certainly encourage a trauma informed perspective learning about that.

I mean, TLC does just a phenomenal job in providing resources as it relates to trauma, informed teaching, trauma-informed pedagogy, making sure that we do as much as we can to prepare ourselves and take advantage of the resources that are available. I think about sort of trauma-informed perspectives, and there are some wonderful resources that are available and sort of even ways of framing the classroom dynamics that are so important and also just the relational dynamics that are so important.

Any time we teach, it really is about the relationship with the students. Certainly it's about student's relationships with one another, and it's about their relationship to the content. But there's something that's also particularly important about the connection between students and faculty. I think that in the midst of circumstances that have been very traumatizing for so many, that emphasis on relationship is heightened even more.

Our being able to connect with our students, learn about them, make sure that we are making a whole set of assumptions about them without really digging in and trying to ask questions about what might be going on here, being able to not just rely on sort of the default assumptions and positions that we might hold on students as an "oh, the student is not is somehow lazy or not hard working or not committed" and taking a deficit perspective on students, but saying, "OK, I wonder what factors might be influencing the student's performance or sort of what I'm seeing or sort of their engagement level as it relates to their coursework."

And just asking questions and getting to know, I think that there are some practical things we can do at the start of the semester. So I try to give out anonymous student info forms where I just ask them, you know, are there...can you help me to understand the circumstances? Here's what's required by this class. Is there anything about that that might be challenging for you given your circumstances? Just asking, is there anything in general going on in your life that would be helpful for me to know about and to sort of consider sort of as this semester unfolds, trying to get as much information as we can, as an organization sort of that focuses on being able to support individuals in a trauma-informed way.

And some of the things that they talk about, about being trauma-informed, talks about, really emphasize we connect before we correct. We understand that behavior is communication. We allow do-overs; we think can't, not won't, that ultimately students sometimes show up, or individuals show up, and it's not that they just won't do something, it's that in the moment they are not necessarily able to regulate themselves in such a way that they can engage in content the way that they might wish to do so.

Healing happens in relationship and teaching also happens in relationship. So I think it's so critical for us to recognize that the relationship is even more important and that we don't, again, rely on default positions that we might have about particular groups and rely on assumptions, get to know our students, ask about what might be going on.

I think it's so critical also to help students to recognize that when we are holding them to higher standards, it's because we believe in them and we know that they have the potential to do that. There was a fabulous study that came out of Yale that really looked at what are the factors that influence whether or not students are willing to persist and reengage in content that might be challenging or assignments that might be challenging, even if they come from groups that have been historically marginalized or historically stereotyped, etc.

And what they found was that there were some students who, if they were given a feedback on an assignment that seemed to be particularly harsh or the feedback was delivered in such a way that might run the risk that the student might feel that they were being viewed sort of through a lens of stereotype. In some conditions, students weren't willing to go back and make revisions to papers or to reengage in a process.

So they said, OK, what are different conditions here? If we have students who are given assignments that are very challenging and they're at risk of potentially being stereotyped based on their own identities, what are the conditions that allow them to really do well and persevere? In one condition, they had students who were given very positive feedback alongside sort of the critiques, "Hey, you did so many great things with this paper and this is positive. This is great. And along with that, these are the things that you need to change." In another condition, they only gave sort of the critique without anything else in both of those conditions.

The students didn't reengage in material. They didn't go back. They didn't make revisions. The faculty didn't see an appreciable improvement in their performance.

There was one condition, however, where there was a noticeable increase in terms of student performance in their engagement. And this condition, faculty gave a particular set of feedback. Ultimately, what they said is, "Look, I have very high standards for this assignment. And the reason why I have these standards are A, B and C. From looking, taking a careful reading of the work that you have submitted to me, it's clear to me that you can meet my expectations. Here are the things that you would need to do in order for that to happen.”

If students are given feedback that's framed in that way, studies actually show that they will rise to the occasion. And so it's not necessarily about saying, "OK, somehow we need to somehow lower our standards or be more accommodating," or just sort of assume, hey, students aren't able to, again, rise to the occasion. It really is about communicating. "Look, I know that you're capable of doing this, and I have a really high standard," as in this is something that's going to be so important for our students when you are engaging in this field or trying to really develop yourself professionally in this way. And here's why I know you can do that. Being able to frame things in that way can be particularly helpful. And there's actually a study on that. And I'll make sure that I pass that along for anybody who's interested in reading further.

Matt: Thank you, Jesse. Yeah, I really like that you're pointing out about acknowledging the grit the students have displayed these past 18 months. It's been remarkable in a number of ways, not just the challenges that they've been facing, but the resilience that they have employed in response to that. And I really like as well what you're saying about how when you make the objectives of the lesson of the assignment clear, the standards very clear and very constructive, you can be rigorous with it. And that in its way is part of trauma-informed pedagogy, being very clear about your expectations, and also very clear about how much you believe the students can meet those expectations too, as well.

Q5: What do you think Connected Learning will look like in Fall 2021?

Matt: So that leads us into our last question. What do you think connected learning will look like and fall 2021?

Jesse: I think it's a great question. I think connected learning will look very different, in part because we have students who are returning to face to face instruction. Many of them who haven't had that in a year and a half. Many new students who are coming into Lasell, and their experience from their high schools might have might not have prepared them in the way that we're used to seeing.

And it's not that these students aren't smart or talented or hard-working; it's just that the educational context that they're coming from didn't provide the scaffolding that might, we might normally see, relative to students in years past.

And so for me, when I think about connected learning, a lot of it will be student-centered. A lot of it will be trauma-informed. I think much of it will take place again where there's an appreciation for the need for a relationship and what it is to...for students to have the opportunity to get to know their faculty members and where the faculty members can get to know the students, who can understand their experiences and their background, and I think will be better positioned to put themselves in their shoes, in the shoes of their students.

I think that there are going to be some hurdles. Certainly it's going to be -- I'm excited to be back in the classroom. I think a lot of people are -- and along with that, you're suddenly going to be in a class and people are going be wearing masks. And what does that look like?

Faculty are used to being able to assess students nonverbal communication and sort of thinking about, OK, what are the ways in which students are grasping this material or other kinds of things? Some of those situational cues won't be available. And so I do think that there's still going to be a great deal of flexibility that will need to be employed in order to meet students, where they're at, a lot of pivoting, and a recognition that we can walk in with a great plan in place and sort of to have a great outline and lesson plan in place.

And yet it's really about the students and where they are and sort of what's meaningful and important to them. So I think that that will certainly -- those will be key components of connected learning when we think about them.

I think the other thing that I would say is the fields have changed. I mean, so much of connected learning, from my perspective, is what we teach in the way that we teach it, ultimately for students that that will be professionally relevant and personally relevant. It will be related to sort of things that they are drawn to or things that they want to really develop in their personal lives. And they'll be able to recognize, "Oh, wow. Sort of engaging in this material, in its content or participating in this class in this way, in this moment is going to prepare me to be a better professional, better human, and a better professional.

And so recognizing that we need to think about how these fields shifted, what are the ways in which suddenly telehealth is an option when it wasn't in times past? What are the ways in which if I'm going to be networking with people, suddenly that networking has to take place in very different ways? Or how is it that I'm going to engage with students who may themselves be experiencing some form of trauma or might come from families in which there are newfound stressors? And what does that look like in the context of a classroom or in the context of a counseling relationship?

Ultimately, there will need to be adaptations that are made. And I think faculty members that will be so critical for us to highlight why we're making these changes, why this new approach, the new approaches that we're advocating for, or this new content that put what we're that we are putting forward, why that's especially important for our students to grasp.

Matt: Makes a lot of sense to me. I agree that students are definitely coming in with new skills and new stories and learning about both and definitely serve connected learning.

Jesse: I agree. Thank you.

Heidi: This is going to be great for the first podcast of the fall semester.

Jesse: Thank you. That's great to hear. I really, I sincerely appreciate your reaching out and wanting to know sort of my thoughts and perspectives on these things. I feel really lucky I'm in a community where so many people embody this, and where I've been able to learn so much from them and with them around these things. And certainly you both, the TLC more broadly, certainly Denny, really partner in this work and lead in such profound ways. So I just know that that appreciation is shared. So thank you.

Matt: It's absolutely mutual. Yes, should be exciting!

Jesse: Yes. Yeah, a lot of learning and excitement. And I guess the only other thing I'd add that I didn't say before, I think it's so critical for faculty, for us to lean on one another and rely on one another, to not feel as if we have to go through all of this on our own and handle this independently. We're affected by these things too. These things don't exist in a vacuum.

It's not as if somehow our students are the only ones who are impacted by these dynamics. And whether that's the polarization, whether that is trauma, whether that is sort of this disruption. And so making sure that we're tapped into one another and relying on one another is going to be so critical. And of course, relying on the TLC because you put out so many wonderful resources.

So we can't do this work in isolation.

Matt: That's what we're here for. So thanks so much for joining us today, Jesse. We really appreciate it.

Jesse: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me again. Pleasure and an honor. Thank you.

Outro

Matt: Thanks so much for listening to us, everybody; faculty interested in learning more about teaching and learning here at Lasell can visit MyLasell at https://my.lasell.edu, or you can send us an email at TLC@lasell.edu, or give us a call: 617.243.2001.

See you later!